C: Had you started with religion at that point as far as being a teacher of religion, a minister in 1969?

J: I was then in 1969, but I started the Church in 1964. But I was afraid to resign [from my employment as an import officer] because I knew I wouldn’t have enough money to keep up with the family, so it took me some time. But when I resigned she [his wife] left me and left the children with me. My boy, my little boy, was about two and a half. The only boy I had: Brigham Young. I named him after Brigham Young.

. . .

C: So he was healed in about 1974, 1975, and then he was part of your cChurch before 1978? Then what time did he go mad again?

J: Yes, 1978. I organized ten branches before the missionaries came. There were about a thousand people.