H. M. Smith: In view of the fact that theChurch has taken a very emphatic stand against this thing and said that it cannot be done, and still some of the people have assumed to perform and encourage these marriages in face of this position. Do you think they are justified in this?

J. W. Taylor: I do not want to discuss my own case it is up to you and the brethren to pass upon that. I am living among the Philistines and you brethren are among the “Mormons". There is one thing that is much more serious in my mind than polygamy and I am not mentioning it to aid me in my case at all. When the enabling act was passed there were two things that we promised, one thing was that polygamy would be stopped and the other that Church influence would not be used in politics. My father received a revelation which, however, was never presented to the Church, and I refer to this not because it is a revelation to my father, I don't think a revelation because it came through him was any greater than one received through any other president of the Church, but because it seems to pertain to this question.

The revelation follows:

September 2[7th], 1886.

You have asked me concerning the new and everlasting covenant and how far it is binding upon my people.

Thus saith the Lord—All commandments that I have given must be obeyed by those calling themselves by my name, unless they are revoked by me, or by my authority, and how can I revoke an everlasting covenant? For I, the Lord, am everlasting, and My everlasting covenant cannot be abrogated nor done away with, but they stand forever.

Have I not given my word in great plainness on this subject? Yet have not great numbers of my people been negligent in the observance of my law and the keeping of my commandments? Yet I have borne with them these many years, and this because of their weakness, because of the perilous times.

And, furthermore, it is now pleasing to me that men should use their free agency in regard to these matters; nevertheless I, the Lord, do not change, and my word, and my law, and my covenants do not.

And as I have heretofore said by my servant Joseph: All those who would enter into my glory must and shall obey my law and have I not commanded men, that if they were Abraham's seed and would enter into my glory they must do the works of Abraham? I have not revoked this law nor will I, for it is everlasting and those who will enter into my glory must obey the conditions thereof.

Even so Amen.

The revelation was read by Brother Penrose.

. . .

J. W. Taylor: I would like to ask if you think a man who has been married since 1890 is living in adultery?

President Lyman: I don't think that matter has been passed upon, but the Church does not recognize marriages since 1890, or does not shoulder any responsibility for unlawful cohabitation.

J. W. Taylor: Brother Lyman, what do you think of the revelation to my father.

President Lyman: If you ask me if I believe in the plurality of wives, I would say that I believe it is true and will always be so, but the Lord may suspend the practice of it and how much of the responsibility remains with the people and with the government, I don't know. I am living with my wives now all the time, but I don't hold the Church responsible for it, but shoulder the responsibility myself. In 1900 President Snow said there was no more authority to perform plural marriages. You were present when President Snow was sustained as President of the Church, and he made the statement that there should be no more plural marriages performed with the permission of the President of this Church, and a short time later published to the world through the Deseret News this statement. Have you (to Brother Taylor) been authorized since President Snow's presidency to perform or authorize any plural marriages?

J. W. Taylor: That I would prefer not to answer, as it would lead to something else. My view is that the Lord was anxious to put everybody upon his own responsibility and take the responsibility from the Church.

President Lyman: That is what the people have done and rejected the law of Plural marriage. Up to the issuance of the Manifesto it was never taught that it would be given up, I didn't think it would for a minute, still I believed the manifesto of President Woodruff was from the Lord. The law will stand forever, but the practice was discontinued.

J. W. Taylor: I believe it. I do not want to sew up the mouth of the Lord so to speak.

President Lyman: I believe the Lord expects us to keep our word with the government and with the people. (He referred to President Snow's remarks when he was selected President of the Church, by the Council of the Twelve) I have no fault to find with the revelation.

C. W. Penrose: Do you understand the free agency referred to in the revelation gives any one the privilege of taking a plural wife?

J. W. Taylor: I take it that it refers to the individual and relieved the Church of the responsibility and placed the responsibility upon the individual.

President Lyman: When did you find this revelation?

J. W. Taylor: I found it on his desk immediately after his death when I was appointed administrator of his estate.

. . .

President Lyman: Do you think any one can solemnize plural marriages with authority now.

J. W. Taylor: I feel under certain circumstances they could, but it would depend upon the circumstances.

President Lyman: What conditions?

J. W. Taylor: I fully explained that last time.

C. W. Penrose: What are your views with regard to that revelation?

J. W. Taylor: I am not the one to pass upon that revelation, I think you are the ones to do that.

C. W. Penrose: What I desire to get at is as to how you view the matter, whether you have been guided by that in your case. You brought the revelation to us and it has never been accepted by the Church, or presented to it.

J. W. Taylor: I think the only thing to do is to go to the presiding Priesthood of the Lord and get his idea on it and get him to inquire of the Lord what His mind is regarding it.

C. W. Penrose: I don't think Brother Taylor should come here and tell us what we need to do; but what I wanted to know is what he thought the President meant by that revelation whether the man was placed upon his own responsibility by that revelation and the president and the Church relieved of all responsibility or not.

A. W. Ivins: Do you know how extensively this revelation has been circulated in times past and has guided people in their actions in this regard?

J. W. Taylor: Brother Joseph Robinson came to me and asked for a copy of it upon the suggestion of Brother Cowley and he got it from Brother Badger. Brother Joseph F. Smith Jr., also got a copy, but I don't know how many have got copies from these.

A. W. Ivins: You don't know what inference was placed upon it in early times.

J. W. Taylor: No I don't know.

A. W. Ivins: I asked this question because I have heard some of the brethren interpreted this revelation in this way and I would like to find out to what extent they had the endorsement of the Church in view of this revelation and what was the reason those brethren went to Canada and Mexico. Do you know what they based their belief upon as they seemed to be sincere. Whether it was from this revelation or from the President of the Church, or from what the ground was taken that they could come in contact with the law of the land and still win out. I would like to know from Brother Taylor, what he knows about this and if they were justified in it.

J. W. Taylor: President Smith has come out on numerous occasions with the statement that there have been no marriages of a polygamous nature solemnized with the approval of the Church, since 1890. He stands at the head of this dispensation at this moment and has adopted that policy and as far as I am concerned I don't want to come in conflict with President Smith on this proposition. I don't know what others have taken from this revelation. If the revelation is true it would certainly impress me that the Church was relieved of responsibility in this matter and the responsibility placed upon the individual.

J. F. Smith Jr.: It is true I obtained a copy of this revelation from Brother Rodney Badger. He let me take the original and I made a copy and filed it in the Historian's Office, this was but a short time ago.

O. F. Whitney: Was it not the policy during your father's administration to leave everything to the mind of the individual?

I know this was the case with me when I went to inquire if I should take the test Oath. I was told to exercise my own judgment. Also there is no authority as far as I can see, in that revelation, no authority given to man to exercise such authority in marrying anyone, but the question of whether they should go into the relationship was left with the individual, as in President Young's time men were commanded to go into it.

C. W. Penrose: I feel that we should not express our own views on this revelation, but should have Brother Taylor's views, if he will give them, if not we can get through with that question.

President Lyman: The date of this revelation is September 1886, four years before the manifesto of President Woodruff, and I remember at that time that President Taylor and all his brethren were very strongly entrenched in the principle of plural marriage. From 1880 to 1890 men were almost commanded to enter it, especially the officials of the Church. We were all pretty well engaged in this question. The change came in 1890 when President Woodruff felt the necessity that plural marriage should cease and after that he felt just as strong against it, as President Taylor had felt for it before. It was subsequent to this that President Smith made his declaration that the Church took no responsibility for the unlawful cohabitation of those in plural marriage and the performance of plural marriages. I would like to ask you if you have encouraged others to take plural wives, or taken them yourself, or if you think these brethren who have copies of this revelation have taken it as an encouragement, for instance Brother Robinson.

J. W. Taylor: I will answer that by asking if any one you have had here before you has ever said that I encouraged him.

. . .

Brother Taylor was excused. The Brethren spent some time considering the case ofBrother Taylor, his attitude and expressions both before this Council and to others and to members of the Council individually, and President Lyman presented the following:

Brother Taylor admitted of wrongs in Canada and Davis county. He tactically admits his late marriage with his typewriter. He has cursed and threatened his brethren. He has put out a purported revelation of his father's which his father never presented to the Church nor his brethren. His construction upon it is very mischievous and against the position and discipline of the Church by the living oracles. It was in his power to have restrained Brothers Cowley and Woodruff, but instead his course lent encouragement to them. He has had no change of heart since he resigned his position in the Council. He has not met us in a friendly and penitent spirit. He blames us instead of himself for his troubles. He said he never wants to be associated with the Twelve in time or eternity. When his brethren reported his cursing of George Albert Smith, he said they were liars. The action of the stake Presidency and High Council in the case of Bishop Robinson he denounced as the damndest outrage ever perpetrated. In a threatening manner he tells us of the awful things that would happen to the Church if he should open his mouth and tell what he knows. He greatly admires Henry S. Tanner and Nathan Clark who we have found unsafe men. His examples and words give comfort and encouragement to those inclined to override the discipline of the Church.

On the 28th day of March the Council convened and further considered the case of Brother Taylor and unanimously rendered the following:

Today, by unanimous vote of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, it was decided that John W. Taylor be, and he is hereby excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for insubordination to the Government and discipline of the Church.

Francis M. Lyman

In behalf of the Council.